AC + UPDATES

[recollecters]

Hey guys! 🦄 The mod team has been doing maintenance work alongside running the plot and reviewing the kinks in the AC system as initially notated here! In doing so, we've been revisiting a few things and we'd like to ask for the game's opinion.

You can review our current AC system over at the AC page here. However, in review, we would like to propose the following changes:

AC would be one of the following options:

EDIT: AFTER SOME CONSENSUS...we propose the following beginning in September:

💠 One memory regain, which can be regained through normal means or from a freebie memory of the month. This link must be a link to your regain and our response, not the thread the regain occurred in.

💠 At least twenty comments presented in no less than two and no more than four threads. The minimum comment requirement for these threads is 3 comments from you (however, you may not submit two threads of 3 and count it as your AC, for example.)

💠 A post (network or log) from you would count as one comment in any chain of comments.

💠 OPTIONAL: After your first ten comments, any AC thread with a person that was not used for AC last month can be redeemed for bonus points!

💠 Please try not to use the same character for more than one proof. We are lenient with this as we know sometimes people have bad months, but the moderators may speak to you if we notice this as a continuing pattern.

💠 Bonus points may be redeemed for any comments submitted in addition to your AC proofs. Additional network comments will equal 1 point, while additional action comments will equal 2.

New Changes to Points
We would also like to propose the following changes:

Network comments - now to be worth 1 point
Log comments - now to be worth 2 points

Reminders
A network post made by you that is only for bonus points also nets you 1 point in addition to your comments.

A log post made by you that is only for bonus points also nets you 2 points in addition to your comments.

There are resources available to you to utilize for AC (spreadsheets, calculators, etc.) and we feel that adjusting the points system will not only help make the math easier for both players and moderators, but for regaining items and abilities as well.

None of this will be in effect until September as we're already nearly halfway through the month, but we wanted to take the game's temperature first before implementing revised changes. We would like to hear your feedback on this! If you have suggestions outside of this, we would love to hear them so that we may review and adjust the system. We cannot fix anything without knowing what may or may not work for players.

Comments will be open so you can express your thoughts, chat with us and each other, etc. Please let us know your thoughts. Thank you guys!

Comments

[catsudon]

Laughs, the change to the AC system itself makes sense to me (as in what combinations add up to a "full" AC for the month) but I do wonder -- would it be possible to just have comments, no matter the kind, equal one point? Without having a big shift in cost for regains or anything else in game?

Mostly to me it seems like we all tag based on what we prefer to do with tagging, or our energy levels, and it doesn't necessarily seem like there needs to be a greater reward for one kind of comment over the other. That's just me, though! I do feel it'd be easiest on everyone if a pure comment count in tags for the month = the point count, without needing to weigh the system one way or another.

Really only bringing that up since the consideration is for changing point values at all.

[lostapprentice]

I wouldn't necessarily agree with limiting to 2 threads of at least 5 comments with posts—I'd stick with the "two threads that equal a minimum of ten comments" as in the original wording.

Otherwise, the option setup is a lot clearer, I think, and changing things to double point values sounds for being easier to calculate. However, just to make it clearer, you might want to move up the memory regain right under the options (or even mention it above the options?) and put it in some kind of bold or blue or what have you. People could easily see the "optional" bullet and then just stop reading, I think.

[anguinous]

Asking here so it isn't lost in the mess of plurk and so other people can see --

For A & B, '1 network post with at least ten comments' and '1 log post with at least 5 comments' -- Does this actually mean one network post OR thread? Can this can be a thread in someone else's post, not only a new post from you, yes? And you only have to add the additional threads if you happen to be submitting a post you made, but the proof not being a post you made is fine? Declaring it as '1 network post' reads like you have to make the post.

This post has posted the word post too much and I'm getting post confused about what post means.

Also, for C. 2-4 threads that equal no less than 20 comments.

This is one proof, and previously the last change you couldn't use the same character in multiple threads for one proof. Like you couldn't use, for this 20 comment example, two ten comment threads with the same person. Is this no longer true? Or still true?

+1

[doublesmall]

If we're looking at potentially doubling the point values for log tags and gaining points faster that way anyway, it seems like a flat rate could accomplish a pretty similar thing and remove some of the complexity!

though in that situation, people who already don't use the network much wouldn't really see much of a change in their own point-gathering-- but with a game this size there's not really a way to rework ac that'll suit absolutely everybody and in this case simpler may be better just from a management standpoint.

[thesettingsun]

I'm all for raising the point value of comments, especially since your stated goal is to bring characters back to their canon selves eventually.

I think those AC rules are confusingly worded. First of all, A would technically fall under C - 2-4 threads with no less than 20 comments. So it doesn't make sense to me for there to be a separate option that in practice amounts to the same thing.

[recollecters]

Hey KC!

This is also a good point and something to take into consideration. I'm linking this comment to the plurk and allowing players to respond to this comment so your inbox doesn't get flooded.

Would you guys prefer same values, or different values? (Optional: Why or why not?)

[playdolls]

I like the idea of simplifying AC, but even here it seems like we're laying out a lot of ifs/thens/buts. I think that's my main critique of communication within the game as a whole. I recognize the effort going in to be clear, but the "this but also this or this" format really reduces clarity for me. I know that's a skill that has be worked on over time, so I hope this is helpful to you as you guys continue to maintenance your system!

For example:

20 comments over 2-4 threads, and you cannot make all of your AC on your own post. Minimum of 5 consecutive comments for a thread.

Which sounds fine to me, I just don't want to have to keep doing this network vs log thread thing, especially in regards to points. Although, if you're fond of that format with points, I do prefer them to be full numbers rather than halves.

Those would be my preferences, I hope the feedback is useful to you. I like that you guys are willing to look at and change functions that you're not sure are working, and to ask us in the first place.

[redarm]

I'd prefer different values, because for me personally it does take more to write an action tag vs a network tag- and I feel it gives people an incentive to do action rather than just spam the network all the time.

[erythristic]

different values.

stating this here because I said it on plurk - I'm actually against the idea of a flat point rate because the increased levels for log tags feels rewarding for going to the effort of sitting and writing out a log thread. the lower values for what essentially is network spam for threads always felt fair. while yes, some characters and people would prefer to be more network heavy, and I understand it relating at times to various energy levels, I think the point incentive stops this game from becoming too network/inbox reliant, as I've noticed tends to happen in games where comment type doesn't matter.

[lostapprentice]

Honestly, I'm perfectly fine with same values.

It would certainly simplify the process on both the mod and player side, and personally I put about the same amount of effort into my log and network tags anyway.

[anguinous]

I'm fine with either. The concept of them being the same doesn't bother me, and the easier math would be nice, but having them be different isn't enough extra work that it irritates me. Personally, the 'effort' put into a network v action/log tag very much can depend on the person anyway? Sometimes network tags are long, sometimes action tags are short! So while I can see the logic behind 'action tags' being 'worth' more I also don't think it is always true anyway. Which is why I'm happy to accept more points for them if it's going to be that way, but don't find it offensive to label them the same value.

[catsudon]

Same values. Honestly I prefer action to network spam; it does not change my tagging habits. I'd like an easier time of calculating that requires nothing but straight addition, which is why!

Also finding a nice icon on this account, laughs.

+1 to me putting in equal effort anyway - my network tags can be introspection heavy depending on what's happening, so it is even less of a "gosh you do more in action/log tags!" for me when it's really just thread depending. Some action threads I'm in take less time than a network thread, and vice versa.

[openhanded]

Different values. Long story short: it's the quickest way to regains, which is the goal. For a lot of stuff people are looking at a thousand points to even become somewhat effective in a plot like the current one, and several hundreds of comments in a month isn't feasible for many of us.

I'd also like to add that I usually write paragraphs for my log tags and it takes about twice as long as a network tag for me. I'm not comfortable with short, unintrospective stuff.

[feistytrader]

Dropping in to say that it might be easier to format the AC as something like this:

AC requirements are the following

♥ One memory regain, which can be regained through normal means or from a freebie memory of the month
♥ At least twenty comments using at least two of the following:
- A network post with at least 10 comments from you
- A thread with at least five comments (no more than four total)
- A log post with at least five comments for you (considered 10 comments for the sake of proofs)
♥ OPTIONAL: an AC thread with a person that was not used for AC last month can be redeemed for bonus points!


or something along those lines. That seems a little more streamlined in my opinion.

That said I'm down with the points changes, goodbye decimals forever hopefully.

[scarlet_devil]

Different values.

[cattack]

Same values. They've always taken about the same effort to me, so I've never quite understood the difference.

[doublesmall]

moving my input down here also-

same values, for both simplicity on the tallying/organization end and because tag length is always going to vary; I also feel like it's not necessarily rewarding network spam, people who like the network are always going to use it more heavily and people who don't or whose characters just aren't into it will lean away from it. the retrospec post goes hard every single month, but so do event logs, and I don't really feel like that'd change too much tbh.

[saburai]

Different values. Action tags definitely take more effort for me, and so it's nice to have an incentive to actually do them versus relying entirely on network tags, which are way easier.

[sotenbori]

Different values. Yes, some actionspam really does become just that but I know there are a lot of players here who put a lot of effort into action tags and it's nice to reward that.

[arahoushi]

Different values

Network tags are dramatically faster and easier for me to do and frequently involve a pretty significant level of "shitposting" so it makes sense to me for them to have different values.

[feistytrader]

Different values: On average a network tag or action tag take about the same amount of time or effort, but I'm vastly more likely to pour paragraphs of introspection into an action tag than a network tag, while I'm vastly more likely to spam shitposty nonsense in network posts. That said I don't necessarily have a strong preference here, either.

OH ANOTHER POINT I HAVE TOWARDS DIFFERING is that while this isn't always the case, action tags have a tendency to be harder hitting and better cr building stuff while network can trend more towards smalltalk

[destiny_key]

Different Values. I've never been in a game like this before, so maybe I don't know what I'm talking about, but I like that log tags are rewarded more than network tags. It's such a small difference, but I think it adds up quickly.

[esperimental]

Different values.

Physical interaction should be rewarded imo, especially for characters who have a harder time engaging in person, having a little OOC nudge so they can regain stuff quicker would be good incentive.

[belligerentwarrior]

Different values, for reasons stated by other people.

[playdolls]

Same values they're exactly the same to me, I don't put any more into one over the other.