AC + UPDATES

[recollecters]

Hey guys! 🦄 The mod team has been doing maintenance work alongside running the plot and reviewing the kinks in the AC system as initially notated here! In doing so, we've been revisiting a few things and we'd like to ask for the game's opinion.

You can review our current AC system over at the AC page here. However, in review, we would like to propose the following changes:

AC would be one of the following options:

EDIT: AFTER SOME CONSENSUS...we propose the following beginning in September:

💠 One memory regain, which can be regained through normal means or from a freebie memory of the month. This link must be a link to your regain and our response, not the thread the regain occurred in.

💠 At least twenty comments presented in no less than two and no more than four threads. The minimum comment requirement for these threads is 3 comments from you (however, you may not submit two threads of 3 and count it as your AC, for example.)

💠 A post (network or log) from you would count as one comment in any chain of comments.

💠 OPTIONAL: After your first ten comments, any AC thread with a person that was not used for AC last month can be redeemed for bonus points!

💠 Please try not to use the same character for more than one proof. We are lenient with this as we know sometimes people have bad months, but the moderators may speak to you if we notice this as a continuing pattern.

💠 Bonus points may be redeemed for any comments submitted in addition to your AC proofs. Additional network comments will equal 1 point, while additional action comments will equal 2.

New Changes to Points
We would also like to propose the following changes:

Network comments - now to be worth 1 point
Log comments - now to be worth 2 points

Reminders
A network post made by you that is only for bonus points also nets you 1 point in addition to your comments.

A log post made by you that is only for bonus points also nets you 2 points in addition to your comments.

There are resources available to you to utilize for AC (spreadsheets, calculators, etc.) and we feel that adjusting the points system will not only help make the math easier for both players and moderators, but for regaining items and abilities as well.

None of this will be in effect until September as we're already nearly halfway through the month, but we wanted to take the game's temperature first before implementing revised changes. We would like to hear your feedback on this! If you have suggestions outside of this, we would love to hear them so that we may review and adjust the system. We cannot fix anything without knowing what may or may not work for players.

Comments will be open so you can express your thoughts, chat with us and each other, etc. Please let us know your thoughts. Thank you guys!

Comments

[catsudon]

Laughs, the change to the AC system itself makes sense to me (as in what combinations add up to a "full" AC for the month) but I do wonder -- would it be possible to just have comments, no matter the kind, equal one point? Without having a big shift in cost for regains or anything else in game?

Mostly to me it seems like we all tag based on what we prefer to do with tagging, or our energy levels, and it doesn't necessarily seem like there needs to be a greater reward for one kind of comment over the other. That's just me, though! I do feel it'd be easiest on everyone if a pure comment count in tags for the month = the point count, without needing to weigh the system one way or another.

Really only bringing that up since the consideration is for changing point values at all.

+1

[doublesmall]

If we're looking at potentially doubling the point values for log tags and gaining points faster that way anyway, it seems like a flat rate could accomplish a pretty similar thing and remove some of the complexity!

though in that situation, people who already don't use the network much wouldn't really see much of a change in their own point-gathering-- but with a game this size there's not really a way to rework ac that'll suit absolutely everybody and in this case simpler may be better just from a management standpoint.

[recollecters]

Hey KC!

This is also a good point and something to take into consideration. I'm linking this comment to the plurk and allowing players to respond to this comment so your inbox doesn't get flooded.

Would you guys prefer same values, or different values? (Optional: Why or why not?)

[lostapprentice]

I wouldn't necessarily agree with limiting to 2 threads of at least 5 comments with posts—I'd stick with the "two threads that equal a minimum of ten comments" as in the original wording.

Otherwise, the option setup is a lot clearer, I think, and changing things to double point values sounds for being easier to calculate. However, just to make it clearer, you might want to move up the memory regain right under the options (or even mention it above the options?) and put it in some kind of bold or blue or what have you. People could easily see the "optional" bullet and then just stop reading, I think.

[recollecters]

Hey Ryoko! As notated above and on the game plurk, we've simplified what AC would be and the wording was really temporary and will be in a more appropriate fashion on the page, haha. We hope this reads well now, and if you have further suggestions please let us know!

[anguinous]

Asking here so it isn't lost in the mess of plurk and so other people can see --

For A & B, '1 network post with at least ten comments' and '1 log post with at least 5 comments' -- Does this actually mean one network post OR thread? Can this can be a thread in someone else's post, not only a new post from you, yes? And you only have to add the additional threads if you happen to be submitting a post you made, but the proof not being a post you made is fine? Declaring it as '1 network post' reads like you have to make the post.

This post has posted the word post too much and I'm getting post confused about what post means.

Also, for C. 2-4 threads that equal no less than 20 comments.

This is one proof, and previously the last change you couldn't use the same character in multiple threads for one proof. Like you couldn't use, for this 20 comment example, two ten comment threads with the same person. Is this no longer true? Or still true?

[recollecters]

Hi Jack! As notated above and on the game plurk, we've simplified how AC can be turned in and hope this now reads a little better. We took everybody's feedback into account and hopefully came to a medium that works well. Please let us know if you have further suggestions. Thank you so much!

[thesettingsun]

I'm all for raising the point value of comments, especially since your stated goal is to bring characters back to their canon selves eventually.

I think those AC rules are confusingly worded. First of all, A would technically fall under C - 2-4 threads with no less than 20 comments. So it doesn't make sense to me for there to be a separate option that in practice amounts to the same thing.

[recollecters]

Hi Mini! You're right, they were pretty damn confusing, so we went back and we've simplified how AC can be turned in and hope this now reads a little better. Hopefully this reads a lot better now, and if you have further suggestions please let us know!

[playdolls]

I like the idea of simplifying AC, but even here it seems like we're laying out a lot of ifs/thens/buts. I think that's my main critique of communication within the game as a whole. I recognize the effort going in to be clear, but the "this but also this or this" format really reduces clarity for me. I know that's a skill that has be worked on over time, so I hope this is helpful to you as you guys continue to maintenance your system!

For example:

20 comments over 2-4 threads, and you cannot make all of your AC on your own post. Minimum of 5 consecutive comments for a thread.

Which sounds fine to me, I just don't want to have to keep doing this network vs log thread thing, especially in regards to points. Although, if you're fond of that format with points, I do prefer them to be full numbers rather than halves.

Those would be my preferences, I hope the feedback is useful to you. I like that you guys are willing to look at and change functions that you're not sure are working, and to ask us in the first place.

[recollecters]

Hi Vee!

The ifs/thens/buts were what we were trying to reduce down critically, so all feedback is good feedback. We've simplified the AC further and it's now in the main body of this post. We hope this reads much more clearly now, but if there's still something redundant or off, please let us know so we can iron out the wrinkles further. Thank you so much for your input!

[feistytrader]

Dropping in to say that it might be easier to format the AC as something like this:

AC requirements are the following

♥ One memory regain, which can be regained through normal means or from a freebie memory of the month
♥ At least twenty comments using at least two of the following:
- A network post with at least 10 comments from you
- A thread with at least five comments (no more than four total)
- A log post with at least five comments for you (considered 10 comments for the sake of proofs)
♥ OPTIONAL: an AC thread with a person that was not used for AC last month can be redeemed for bonus points!


or something along those lines. That seems a little more streamlined in my opinion.

That said I'm down with the points changes, goodbye decimals forever hopefully.

[recollecters]

Hi Cam!

I definitely used your format to rewrite everything and as a base for what we're settled with, so thank you. GOODBYE DECIMALS FOREVER!!!

[matchbreaker]

I support that wording or something similar idk if its just that I'm tired but I legitimately did not understand B and B.5 in the top of the post.

[skald]

Hey guys! I agree with some of the wording suggested earlier in this post ("20 comments over 2-4 threads, and you cannot make all of your AC on your own post. Minimum of 5 consecutive comments for a thread." seems really straightforward while capturing the important points IMO) but while we're talking about AC:

Is there any chance that AC could be due at 11:59 PM EST on the 1st, instead of on the last day of the month? All comments would still have to be done in the previous month. I know basically my entire plurklist announces that they've stopped tagging for the rest of the month at some point in the last two days of the month, and for that last day or so the game's activity seems to really slow down. You could post AC first thing on the 1st (or earlier if you had to, of course), instead of last on the 30th. EDIT I'm realizing that you guys would have to pay attention to the timestamps on threads that continued on into the 1st when double checking bonus points, but it seems like that might come up anyway since people keep tagging after midnight EST as is.

+1

[redarm]

I wouldn't mind the cut-off time being moved to the 1st, since yeah it can get pretty stressful sometimes balancing tagging those last couple days of the month, and making sure your AC is in order. Having an extra day to turn in your AC would help a lot with that I think.

+1

[frisyr]

I usually freeze my tagging at the end of the month to cut down on updating

+0.5

[feistytrader]

When I first saw this I thought "man this is a fantastic idea" and I still do but basically where I'm at right now is

+ Oh man, people would actually tag for the last twelve hours or so of the month, hell yes.
+ Less of an awkward crunch time between threads and AC in general
+ Events that take place around the end of the month wouldn't run into the end of the month problem!

- Right now AC takes a lot of time to fill out (it takes at least a couple hours in my experience) and having that lull period is a great time to get on that
- Everyone rushing in to put their AC on the first and overlapping with the posts that usually go up on the first would be kind of awkward
- possibly a logistical nightmare for the mods given that AC/flood of new regains/new player intro/new event tend to happen within a very crunched three day period

-1 I guess?

[matchbreaker]

Honestly, while I really agree with the spirit of this (I know that I often close out tagging 10 or so hours before the ac period ends in order to make sure the points are in order), that, at least to me, strikes me as a far more acceptable loss of time than the confusion of filling out the final stretch of the ac during a period which counts towards the next ac tagging wise. Given how I consolidate my ac, in practice, I'd probably have about the same dead time, just possibly on a different day.

But that might just be me.

[recollecters]

Hi Corinne! First of all, thank you for your feedback and we hope the new AC posted in the main body of this post now makes sense and is a little easier to work with.

As for changing AC to be due at 11:59PM EST on the 1st, the main reason we have it due on the last day of the month is solely because there are a lot of players to go through and in order to keep with the schedule of a Retrospec post on the 1st, the plotting post going up (usually) on the 1st, event logs on the 3rd, and the flush of regains and applications during app months, it just helps us stick to a schedule and be able to space everything out a little mod-wise.

We do apologize for the inconvenience that comes with tagging on the last day of the month, but that's really just it. It's solely to keep everything spaced out and for us to juggle accordingly to make sure everything can streamline smoothly. We hope this makes sense!

[belligerentwarrior]

It's a little thing, but personally, I'd be happier if the start date of the thread was removed (or made optional) from the AC format. Threads can be stalled after starting, or forward/backward dated, etc. If it serves some purpose for you guys, that's fine! It's just an extra time tabbing back and forth per thread when I'm doing AC, and would cut down on that time quite a bit.

If this is not part of the AC up for consideration, that's fine o7

[matchbreaker]

SECONDED? seconded a lot, I don't see a purpose in it for me personally.

If it does serve a purpose on the mod end like helping you make sure it was within the time period at a glance though that's fin I don't mind it, but it is one of the biggest hassles of doing ac for me.

FOR REFERENCE;

[recollecters]

This was the initially proposed system:

A. 1 network post with at least 10 comments from you
A.5. You must also then supply an additional 10 comments obtained by threading outside of the post supplied for your AC. This means these comments must not come from the post you are submitting for AC. These may be 10 consecutive comments, or two five-comment threads.

B. 1 log post with at least 5 comments from you.
B.5 You must also then supply an additional 10 comments obtained by threading outside of the post supplied for your AC. This means these comments must not come from the post you are submitting for AC. These may be 10 consecutive comments, or two five-comment threads.

C. 2-4 threads that equal no less than 20 comments.

💠 OPTIONAL: Half of these comments may be used for bonus points if they are in threads with a character you did not use for your AC proof the previous month. This does not have to be brand new CR.

💠 NOT OPTIONAL: One link to one approved memory per month. This must be a link to your comment on the regains page with an approval comment by us.

💠 Please try not to use the same character for more than one proof. We are lenient with this as we know sometimes people have bad months, but the moderators may speak to you if we notice this as a continuing pattern.

💠 Please do not link a top-level with several comments as your AC proof. You may, however, use multiple threads from the same top-level if these threads have a minimum of five comments from you.

[explodosafe]

The proposed changes all look good to me now that I've had the chance to read through this post and all it's comments as well as the plurk! (Yay, more points!)

I'm sort of jumping on GS's comment, but would it be possible to have some sort of timer or world clock for the time zone you're working with as a help for knowing when deadlines for AC, Regains and Apps end? One of my previous games used this website for an easy way for players to look up how much time they have left for getting their apps in, you can just add in a line with a link at the bottom of the respective posts or something. I think having a point of reference would help time-conversion challenged players such as myself and could possibly even help defuse the tags slowing down before AC closes phenomena a bit, what do you think?

[lalliho]

I love getting rid of the .5, yes, yay, excellent.

Something brought up in the point value discussion made me a little curious -- the fact that submitting an action thread for AC as opposed to a network thread means you're potentially missing out on twice the number of bonus points. While I feel a little weird bringing this up since it's not an issue for me personally, I do wonder if there's something that could be done to make that a little more fair?

And then a point in favor of not doing anything about it: it incentivizes at least a couple network threads in the same way that the point values incentivizes action threads. With the point about tagging different people to use those threads for AC, this is an excellent opportunity to tag newbies on the intro retrospec post.